Deborah Lipstadt She came to her job as a U.S. envoy to monitor and combat anti-Semitism with a wealth of credentials and a lifetime of experience. Her authority as a Holocaust historian had earned her not only awards but also a historical trial by a UK court against David Irving, the Holocaust denier who sued Lipstadt for defamation after she called him that.

But on October 7, 2023, the world’s attention was focused on a new horror, answered by a war that requires, as Lipstadt said in a recent interview, “that you have more than one idea in your head at a time.” Lipstadt spoke to TIME about how her work has changed and how she sees the reaction to the war between Israel and Hamas. This interview has been edited for length and clarity.

You are the president’s special envoy to monitor and combat anti-Semitism. How are you? Business is booming and I’m the only one in the Administration who wants a recession (in my field).

Does that mean your job has gotten easier or harder over the last year? When I took office, my first speech talked about the need to get people to take anti-Semitism seriously. “The Jews have done it! What is the problem?” Now I have less of that. I hear people tell their 12-year-old grandson who wears a kippah, “Put on a baseball cap. For security reasons.” On the Upper East Side of Manhattan.

You grew up when Israel was the underdog. Entire generations knew him first as an occupier. I was there during the Six Day War. I was a kid, but, you know, we didn’t know what was going to happen. That profile has changed dramatically. At the same time, there is still intense hatred among many entities surrounding Israel who want to see its demise.

How can you distinguish between criticizing Israel and being anti-Semitic? Holding Jews around the world responsible for what happens in Israel is anti-Semitism. But if criticism of Israel’s policies were anti-Semitism, the hundreds of thousands of Israelis protesting in the streets on a Saturday night would be anti-Semitic.

His academic work focuses on the Holocaust. Is hearing what is happening in Gaza described as a genocide triggering in any way? There is a definition of genocide. You can say that this is a tragedy; Many people in Gaza do not support Hamas. It can be said that the suffering is immense and seemingly endless. But that is not genocide.

Read more: The new antisemitism

Between what happened in Israel on October 7 and in Gaza afterward, it can sometimes seem like competing traumas. There are certainly competing traumas. I don’t get into competitive suffering. Your two compacted molars don’t make mine feel any better. I don’t think it will get you anywhere. We’re talking about responding to an attack. The 1,200 deaths on October 7 are equivalent (as a proportion of the population) to 48,000 Americans. If someone had said we should sit silently after 9/11 and not respond? If someone hits you, you have to hit them back.

Did you just say we? That’s how it is. That’s a good point. I spoke as an envoy for Joe Biden — who flew there after the attack — and, yes, I also speak as a Jew.

Do you think the Jewish people in general feel that their destiny is linked to that of Israel? I think some Jews do. Some Jews feel that if something were to happen to Israel, they would be less safe in the world. There are many Jews who feel this way.

Does it work the other way around? If Israel is delegitimized (an important word within Israel), are Jews more vulnerable? I think so. I think in many places yes. And we also have to think about it. Do you want to talk about genocide? Talk about the genocide of the Uyghurs.

But that doesn’t happen on camera, right? The Chinese have made sure of this. But if someone found a group of Chinese citizens and beat them up (in retaliation), we would be horrified.

Raquel Weisz you played with you Denialthe movie about how a Holocaust denier sues you for defamation. Are you still in touch? We send emails. After I was appointed, she told the producers that they had to call their ambassador. She took the role very seriously. His father escaped from Hungary and his mother was born in Vienna to a Jewish father and they had to leave. So she came to this in a very personal way.