KPRC 2 exclusive interview with District Attorney Kim Ogg after ex-HPD officer convicted in deadly Harding St. raid.

HOUSTON, Texas – Following the historic conviction of former Houston Police Department narcotics officer Gerald Goines, KPRC 2 Investigates Reporter Mario Diaz stood outside the Harding Street home for an exclusive conversation with Harris County District Attorney Kim Ogg.

Here is an overview of the questions Mario asked the prosecutor:

Q: It’s gray now. Before it was white, you had all the memorials set up. It’s no longer there. The change is quite symbolic, however, as the Tuttles, and the way they are portrayed, have been completely changed by this process.

A: That was the most important thing for the surviving family members: to clear the names of their loved ones. That they made it clear to the people of Harris County that Dennis Tuttle and Rhogena Nicholas, they called her Reggie, respected the police… were not anti-cops, were not drug dealers, were not people hated by the police. community. Quite the opposite. And I think it’s important to remember that when you think about what justice is. Gerald Goines goes to prison for life, but they also have to live with their loss.

Q: This is the first time an HPD officer has been convicted of murder. It’s bittersweet?

A: This isn’t the first time a civilian has been shot by a Houston police officer. We have just seen lesser verdicts, and the relevance and importance of what this jury has done shows that we are done when it comes to corruption in policing among public officials. The community is fed up and they won’t give them a pass anymore.

Q: How important was this verdict?

A: It is a historic judgment, and it is a judgment of the people. For the people, literally. We love the Houston Police Department. I think they are quite popular among our citizens. Really and truly. One bad cop can go a long way toward destroying our public’s trust in the system. It baffles prosecutors. We see that juries have historically been forgiving of officers who shot people. And this idea that we’re going to put the victim on trial is that the victims are really to blame. I think this has clearly been rejected by the jury, and generally in police shooting cases.

Q: You received a lot of criticism for this from HPD and others. Do you feel justified now that you have achieved this victory?

A: We always had evidence that proved beyond a reasonable doubt that Gerald Goines was guilty. And I think this is almost an exoneration for our prosecutors who had the courage to go forward and investigate, not just Goines and Bryant, but all the other law enforcement officers involved. I feel like I’ve done my job, Mario. And whether the justification is rightly mine. I don’t accept criticism from people when it comes to decisions about whether or not to pursue cases, whether against police officers or politicians. I have proven that. I think we’re giving the power to grand juries. We bring them all the evidence, and we basically let the people of Houston choose. I ran on that. I’ve lived here all my life. I lived in this East End for fourteen years. And so I care about our justice system and I want people to trust the police and for crime victims to be respected. It’s not their fault the police barge in in the middle of the afternoon with a fake warrant. All made by Gerald Goines. To what? Make another arrest? Just as he had done for twenty years. Until our police stop counting numbers and start determining whether their actions make an area safer. I think we’re going to see these repeated problems in drug enforcement. I want that to change. And so, is that a vindication, seeing a change by a jury when they’re standing in front of the police who shot people and got probation or were not charged or were not guilty? Yes, it is our community saying that we always wanted justice for innocent people and we want our police to do the right thing. And most of them do. But these people, there was a big problem here on Harding Street, and I think the whole neighborhood should feel equal.

Q: Which part of the test stood out to you the most?

A: You know, Otis Mallet spent eight and a half years in prison for a crime he didn’t commit. It was framed by Gerald Goines. Dennis Tuttle’s son testified at the end about the impact of his father’s murder and his stepmother’s murder on their entire family. Those are moments I will never forget. I think it also took courage from the police officers who oversaw and knew Gerald Goins for years to tell the truth about him. And so those are times when witnesses are really authentic to a jury. That’s what people remember. And that’s what I think is important to remember.

Q: What did you see in Gerald Goines when they finally convicted him?

A: I see Gerald Goines as a master manipulator. He’s been fooling people for years. Meanwhile, he had downed weapons, drugs to plant on people, intimate relationships with his confidential informants, all things that we know are important warning signs about public corruption. But he was smooth.

Q: But when you saw him in the courtroom, as I did, and you heard this story about this legendary figure as it was played by the former head of the department, a hero, a great guy. And you see this shell of a man standing there getting his punishment. What was going through your mind?

A: Well, I don’t see Gerald Goines as a shell. I see him as someone whose manipulation has run out and his luck has run out. The community has spoken. In both cases he received a sentence of 60 years and a $10,000 fine. That’s an exclamation point from a jury. I think it’s time for him to face his fate. I mean, you’re doing a bad job. You frame people. As a result, innocent people die. I don’t see him as a shell. I see him as a perpetrator that now this community is free. Then all of Houston is free. I think our streets will be safer with him behind bars.

Q: What if they claim that the community is safer when he is in the community? Nicole, Deborde said the community is safer now that Gerald Goines is not going to jail.

A: You must be joking. Framing innocent people, resulting in people being murdered as he lied on arrest warrants to judges and manipulated the entire system. For what? I think this neighborhood would tell you that they are glad Gerald Goines is behind bars and they want to see which other officers will be held accountable.

Q: How involved were you behind the scenes in this prosecution?

A: From day one. We will be notified immediately if something like this happens. So I got a call. I worked with our intake department, our special crimes attorneys, and our civil rights team as they watched the investigation unfold. We were not the principal investigators. HPD was. I was involved with the civil rights team while the police focused on Goines. They then focused on Bryant, who covered up Goine’s misdeeds over the lies about the confidential informant and helped plant the drugs. When HPD Squad 15 declined to investigate further, we moved on. We talked to the Rangers. I worked with my staff, and our team had to build it from there. It’s hard to get the police to investigate, Mario. It’s hard to find prosecutors willing to take these cases against the guys we work with every day. So I was very involved. I met with our team weekly. It was led by Natasha Sinclair, an excellent lawyer, and I had good supporting lawyers. They did the work. Our investigators went further and when these charges came out, I thought they were extremely important. So I stayed on the case the whole time. When we were heavily criticized for the delay, when in reality the job of a court is to move a case forward. You know, I take the heat for those things and I should take the heat. I, on the other hand, am the prosecutor. Courts should be responsible for what they are responsible for scheduling bonds and ultimately giving someone a fair trial. We finally got that. I think Houston should be relieved. It’s the most historic verdict we’ve ever had. And it doesn’t say HPD is bad. It says we take out the bad cops when we find them and as Houstonians we show no mercy because our community is worth more than that.

Q: You look at it and say everything for what?

A: For ducks. You know, that’s what they call it in the police. Initiate arrest. They call it counting ducks. It’s the wrong way to handle enforcement. What would make a community safer by issuing a search warrant? Serious? I mean, it’s just so over the top. In Third Ward, my first assistant, Vivian King, represented someone shot by Goines. She reports that he was a well-known element in the community. I don’t know if you talk to people. Harvey Clemons in the Fifth Ward told me he was well known. I think this is the end of it: a person’s ability to just do whatever they want with their authority without consequences.

Q: At some point during the trial it came up during the trial. And this was the key for many people. You ordered the former police commissioner to turn off the body cameras. When you look back on that action, you feel frustration. Do you feel upset that your team could have used some of that video to bring this together? But he said turn it off.

A: The prosecution is based on the existing evidence. What could have been or could have been is never our point. We focused on Gerald Goines. We focused on the police officer’s actions. Additional evidence always helps.

Q: Why this house? Why this couple?

A: That’s the question Dennis Tuttle, son Ryan, asked. Gerard Goins.

Q: Will Houstonians ever get the truth about what happened in that house?

A: We have the truth. Why it happened remains unclear. We know that Goins deliberately sought an arrest warrant against this house. We know that information was falsely received by one of the neighbors. And that perfect storm brought with it a jumpout crew.